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Author Topic: Best Metal Band?  (Read 20840 times)
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« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2009, 03:55:00 AM »

Simple answer, you cannot answer my question and take the 'f*ck off' approach. Because you and I both know that a genre of music is based SOLELY on OPINION, and cannot be classified by everyone the same. I can give you credit, you do know much about metal. I for one appluad you on the fact that you enjoy the music that most consider 'real metal' and not the really light shit that real metal fans look down upon. Im not giving nor denying you my approval. Just gave you a question over the topic which you think you know *the most about, and you cannot provide a legitimate answer that applies to everyone.
^If you had worded this in any other way, I would have taken the above as sarcasm.
Are you nuts? I answered your question in the third block of text down of my reply where I described the criteria I thought needed to be predominant in music for it to be considered actual Metal. I really thought that was obvious with all those bands and links in there too...
I only quoted the end bit of your post because I felt oddly obligated to after including everything else, + that was the only part that genuinely pissed me off a little (I don't really shine while responding to what I see as condescendence). I didn't think it would lead to any confusion.

*I'm not sure what you meant by "the most about", whether you meant it as a precursor-esque suggestive stab at my alleged ego-centric character (which is somthing you so enthusiasticly tell us all about later) or an observation aired out of the desire to cram as much text into your post as possible, like what I'm doing now, and now, and now, and now.  Wink
That was the point i was trying to get accross to Severed. Elitists have a fatal flaw, they cannot accept/agree with anyone else's opinions besides their own. While you make a very good and well thought out point, you still cant accept the fact that bands you dont like, are in fact, considered metal by some people. Dragonforce is a good example. They are considered by many to be metal, and many consider them rock/hard rock/whatever. You call them Faggotforce because you dont like them, but they are classified alongside some of the bands that you probably listen to.
I see things very differently...
Elitists stick to their views (after forming them) because they've listened around (usually for years'n years), heard all your favorite bands, went back and listened to their favorite bands, and decided something was wrong.
I'm sure you've noticed that there arn't many "metalcore" elitists out there, I doubt there's many BFMV fans out there who could call Immolation a bunch of shit-fake poserfag no talents, then produce a long, accurate, valid list of why their band is "better". Opinion plays an extremely silent back-row oriented role in dictating what's actual, or, "real" in Metal. Opinions are just there to decide what group you belong to.

The laws of gravity and the rules of metal are both absolute, if you decide to ignore the laws of gravity, then your going to fall into a f*cking chasm and die.
Likewise, if you decide to go ahead and listen to some godawful kittiecore bullshit, then claim it should be ranked up there with the likes of Abscess and Impetigo, your going to get a truck load of shit and bashing thrown your way.
The people who would use the words "Dragonforce" and "Attacker" in the same breath don't know what they're talking about. If you can't distinguish between looped, vain, generic wankery and true badass riffs'n song structures, then you must be deaf. It's not a matter of just "not liking them" either, there's something all the bands I enjoy have in common, regardless and outside of genres altogether, there's a certain indescribable feeling of lacking in the whole "disingenuous overtones" department. Bands like Dragonforce and Trivium have no substance at all, same goes for all these modern "b00t4l3" T3H S1AM'N!!!1! "Death" Metal bands, its all regurgitated bullshit re-packed and shiny to perpetuate nostalgia among young, stupid teenagers.

Bottom line, there is such a thing as "true" and "untrue" bands whether you like it or not, whether I like it or not, whether the adolescent idiots who do the power ranger dance to Waking the Cadavear like it or not, and (probably most importantly) whether the elitists of the world like it or not.
Your flaw is that you think you are completely right and know just about everything when it comes to metal. So you believe that anybody else's views and beliefs are inferior/idiotic. *Im just saying i dont like people that are stuck-up/arrogant simply because they think they know everything about something, when in reality, they know specifics, not the totality of the subject. Thats all.
Wrong.
I only claim to know what I need to know, and what every person who wants to call they're favored bands "metal": The facts.
*LOL! You make me sound like I'm a punky high school kid leeching off his parents while rebelling and telling them they're wrong all the time with that comment. I'm not arrogant at all, if you think I'm being unreasonable, that's fine, but throwing inaccurate assessments about my character into the gelatinous orgy that is your argument will only diminish my interest in this discussion (and not fuel any neanderthal-like anger that you think might shine through in my responses, it's an old tired ploy and I won't fall for it again Grin).
Buying records, hmm thats a good one. I havent bought a record since i was like 12, anyone with access to the internet can get all their music for free. As for the "Im mister big shot and i dont need a damn approval from anyone." Ahh i find it funny that your arrogance outweighs everything else. Also shows how self-centered you are, you think you know so much when it comes to metal. Sadly, you know very little, only certain aspects and portions of it. To jump to the conclusion that you know a shitload of what you are talking about, is quite pretentious on your part as well.
Ouch.
Well I guess if my "arrogance" out-weighs everything else, then that would mean it out-weighs the validity of what I've been insisting, it out-weighs any reason I might have for posting my thoughts (except for maybe selfishness) , it out-weighs my consistent delivery, and it out-weighs... Well, like you said; EVERYTHING.
Why then would I entertain your incessant meanderings after seeing how severely misguided you are in your sad, depraved, filthy, puny little backwards metalcore-loving world, so shockingly plain compared to my supremely epic fortress of undeniably  TRUE, REAL, and FANTASTICLY HETERO METAL BRILLIANCE!!!??? A'HAHAHA! I AM TRUELY GREATER THAN ALL YOU DISGUSTING TINY PATHETIC WORMS! YOU ARE ALL WORMS I TELL YOU! f*ckING WORMS COMPARED TO ME AND MY METALNESS!!! ALL HAIL HIGH LORD TBROAOFBTVOHFM!! SUPREME RULER OF ALL THAT IS TRVE IN THIS REALM!
MUHAHAHAhAHahAhaHaha-Wha? Where am I? Huh? Whats all this cap'd text?
lul, ok enough with the bullshit.

It sounds to me like your deriving this "you think you know everything, but you only know some stuff about specific stuff" from my disapproval for bands you personally like, more than anything else. I've come across this before, people think they can "understand" what metal is "about" just because they listen to a more varied spectrum of bands. The impression I'm left with after interacting with those people is one of disgust and pity. That kind of thinking is kindled by an under-developed taste (in most cases), and I don't see how anyone over 16 could ever listen to an old Beherit album, then put on some "Beneath the Massacre" bullshit and still bang they're head (unless they were a late-metal bloomer or w/e).

Elitists (which I hate saying/typing because I know referring to myself as one really must make me sound like a complete hole) have generally listened to almost everything available out there, or at least every style and denomination of what others might call "metal". They notice the distinct differences (that might not always be obvious to casual listeners) between the two main schools of bands (you'll know exactly what I mean if you've read my other comments in this post) and they choose the group of bands they prefer. Its a very long and very tedious process that goes on subconsciously behind the curtains of every head that yurns to bang.
Now, unlike you, I'm not going to tell you you don't understand something.
But I will tell you why I think those who get "bashed" by elitists are so bitter about hearing their favorite bands being called "faggots" in'aww'at: They're jealous.
The casual/indifferent listener is jealous of the dedication, convictions, and twisted "glamor" of the elitist, and what being an elitist means. It may not be at the forefront of every butthurt Dimmu Borgir fan's mind when he fills his angry venom-filled reply with swear words and ad hominems, but its a jealousy that's been bubbling deep within his belly since the dawn of time, even though as far as he knows, it doesn't exist.
Bubbling right beside this jealousy, is a realization. A realization that the hole elitist on the other end was struck by only a few years before, and now he's using it to his advantage to spin circles around the nostalgia drunk Dimmu fan...

So yeh... Either those explanations went right over your head, you think I'm some sort of terrible monster, or you finally get what I'm trying to say.
Once you recognize that there are objective facts and "rules" that apply to Metal (just like everything else in the world), I think you'll back off on the whole "its all music" mantra (although my intention was never to sway you).

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« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2009, 07:38:23 AM »

You may have given your definition of what you would consider metal in the previous post, but that definition pertains ONLY to yourself. Ive understood where you stand on metal and how/what you think metal is. You just dont seem to comprehend what im trying to get across. My point in this discussion was to show that your beliefs and views on metal only pertain to yourself, nobody else.
Yes, metal does have some norms and criteria to meet to be considered metal, you dont exactly see someone like Madonna even slightly being considered metal. I understnad that aspect of the situation, most people, including myself, wouldnt even consider disreagarding classifying a band as metal if they were say like Amon Amarth. They are definetly not pop, hip hop, or any of that other pussy-ass crap that gets blasted all over the radio because so many queers enjoy their pathetic voices/beats.
To say that opinions are sitting 'back-seat' is another pretentious accuasation. Bands make their money off of fans, not based upon whether they think their music is the shit or not. The opinions of the listeners/fans help to make a band what it is and to attract more followers. Opinion play a vital role, maybe not so much in the actual music production, but definetly in the distribution of that music.
I personally never agreed with the claim that 'kittie-core' bands like likin park and korn should be considered metal, and i actually refuted the claims because i for one dont think they even scratch the surface when it comes to being a metal band. But that is only what i think, and others think differently.
I agree with you in that most bands these days do not have any sort of substance, but (i cant seem to emphasize this enough huh? lol Wink) but that is only the belief of the listener. I may think that a band like Linkin Park is shit, but to someone else, they tatoo their album covers on themselves and never miss a concert. (Quite frankly i think that is one of the dumbest ideas ever)
Bashing is always going to happen and i can accept that, its never going to disipate because humans have a tendecy to never be able to agree on a damn thing. I didnt mind it in this topic, but if your going to bash every band on here (Severed) and not produce a reason as to why you think that, or even your own preferred music to back that up, is simply childish.
As for the arrogance thing, anyone would say you are arrogant simply by the way you speak about yourself and others. You have constantly put me down in this topic, way before i ever made an assement/judgement of your character. Showing you believe my ideas/beliefs are inferior to your own. If im not mistaken, that would be arrogance, and you got plenty man. Arrogance is a tribute i would never want to have, and if it works for you, thats cool. Elitist get alot of shit for the way they act towards others and how they rank their thought higher over others. So while my arguments/posts/whatever may not be as intelligent/belittling/persuading as yours, i can still step back from this and accept the fact that someone's beliefs may be better than mine.
You know more than i do pertaining to metal, ill give you that. Im more of a computer/numbers guy, yes i know its nerdy but look at Bill Gates and tell me he isnt a man. Im just discouraged because of the fact that no matter what, i will always be wrong because elitists never concede or agree with someone else's claims. I gave up trying to 'sway' you along time ago, i realized it would be a hopeless attempt at trying to show someone the faults in their ways.
As i told you before, the reason that i am the only one combating you in this discussion, is because im the only one that is most likely understanding what you are saying, and trying to express my own ideas to you. Ive known the whole 'rules' for metal whenever i first started listening to metal when i was in like the 7th grade. Disturbed was my gateway into metal, and although i dont really listen to their music much anymore, i still have to give them the credit for introducing me into the f*cking awesomeness that is metal. I like metal just as much as the next guy, and i will listen to it til the day that my body winds up in a morgue. Hopefully my point is 'worthy' enough to be considered by you, the 'elitist' (love calling you that, makes me happy whenever you defend your elitist position and how you wish people didnt think you were a relenting hole, look i said it again!  Cheesy) because if i can at least get you to examine my views, i have done my job. Whether or not you accept them is completely obselete to me and i could care less, but as long as you are aware of where i stand and what my views are, im good  Grin
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« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2009, 08:48:17 AM »



Play nice kids. Stick to the topic : Best metal bands. It isn't called arguing about metal.
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« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2009, 12:38:44 PM »



Play nice kids. Stick to the topic : Best metal bands. It isn't called arguing about metal.

Thats the problem Mod. Its impossible to discuss about music.. its like luneth said - somewhere in this massive ammount of text - child A and child B. I am not only listen to metal or have any favourite bands there. Lots of it is good, except pop-metal music from 2000-2010 that you can hear in the charts.
The same for politics.. its not possible to discuss politics in any way between two opponents.
The Blackmetal dudes hear deathmetal and rant about powermetal, chartmetal or Kiss *laugh*. The deathmetal dudes dont like blackmetal and chartmetal but lots of em love classic music. The chartmetal dudes dont know anything about the good old bands and rant against everything that isnt their favourite band. The sad thing is that they mostly have only one chartmetalband they like or slipknot *laugh* And whats with the alternative rock fans? They seem run to run away from hearing pink floyd in a rockcaffe b/c its to hard for them. *laugh* Some of em like iron maiden but cant handle old stuff from metallica (the first 3 albums of course). I heard that some of them are scared from ozzy osbourne... and the vikingguys like blackmetal or have big sword at home.. somethings more like a flammberg or a old dagger from the dritte reich. But not all of em.. ohh and did you ever heard deatmal on marijuana? Dont miss it.
Well now i wrote a long text without content like all the other long texts before and I fulfilled my goal to get 100 credits and I am officialy pimped to be inside the hall of fame of long-text-writing-users. And now start to post metalvideos and never start to discuss about anything else! Only metalvideos! lets go!!!



but I know the answer.. its all the fault of some brutal angressive songs that all metalfans going crazy Wink I love it!
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« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2009, 05:49:21 PM »

*Sigh*
Well I guess we're done here then.
You've decided to completely ignore my points, even though I've layed them out as best I could.
Don't tell me I don't "comprehend" what you've been "trying to tell me all along", I'm well aware of which anvil you've been (feverishly) banging, and have been this entire time. You claim (at first) that every aspect of Metal (and any opinion that could be formed about metal) is purely subjective when it comes to decidedly defining whats "good" or not. I  rejected your drivel and refuted that idea altogether by stressing and repeating my points on the "rules"/"facts" of actual Metal.

But since you've been so keen to point out my "flaws" all throughout our exchange, I guess I should give it a go now, hmm? You insist all my views on Metal apply to me, myself, and only me and that's all I can see. That's an extremely difficult position to defend without enlisting the help of any corroborators to speed your assertions home. Why should my opinions be welcomed with more skepticism than yours? Because they're more radical? More selective? In other words, why are you right while I'm wrong?
You've contradicted yourself in the most epic way possible, if  the strongest argument you can conjure up is "ur arrogant dood", then it should be obvious that you've already lost (but I guess that won't bother you since apparently you don't care about that)...

So now I'll just have to assume that you've been arguing against the existence of objectivity in Metal instead.
Judging by the bands you've been using in your examples, it would appear that you know less about the subject than you let on. Saying Korn and Lincoln Park arn't Metal bands wouldn't exactly be a profound revelation in my book, and Amon Amarth easily falls into the "queerbait garbage" catagory for alot of people out there (including myself).
Believe it or not, I've not been referring to the most primordial levels of "whats metal and whats not" at all so far.
Its common knowledge that bands like Korn and Disturbed aren't metal, I've been talking about bands who are considered to be "Metal" (like Amon Amarth and Dragonforce) by casual listeners, when really, its just a bunch of modern-sounding faggotry.

^I really hope that didn't need to be explained, because if so, you've got alot of rereading to do...
In my last two posts I have:
Given you examples.
Given you situations.
(And) I've given you several explanations.
Did I back up my theories with literal empirical evidence? No. But Neither did you, and I didn't exactly come to a conclusion about  my realization of the facts on a whim.
Truth is, I don't see myself as an elitist at all, I may refer to myself and the like-minded individuals around me as "elitists", but that's mainly to humor you while I pick apart the flimsy soft tissue of your argument. Do you really think I haven't been in your shoes before? Are you under the impression that all my ideas about Meal have been with me since birth?
No.
I used to sympathise with, and even defend the same position your defending right now. I used to think "Metal is Metal and its all music anyway, even if some of it is bad". Maybe "maturity" played some part in my uncovering of the truth, or maybe it was the new-found love for BM that I had just experienced (back then). Either way, there's no real merit in disputing the authenticities of what have (now) been mutually recognized as demi-god-like (to the objective) subjective perspectives...

By this point, I think its safe to say that we're not going to get anywhere with the way things are going (and the way certain aspects of the discussion are being ignored)...
There was some other things you mentioned that I don't have time to cover here, I've got friends/relatives visiting from Glasgow for two weeks who'll be arriving today, so obviously I'll be too busy/shit-faced to give you any decent responses. That's by no means a copp-out of any sort, but I'd strongly urge you to refer back (at least) to my last post before moving forward with any responce you might have for me in regards to what I've just said here.

I'd also like you to watch this (below) video in its entirety.
It was made by a friend of mine in responce to an extremely irritable kid who wouldn't shut up about deathcore's supposed "validity". At first glance, it may seem like a fairly straight forward "bash" video, but beneath all the ad hominems and use of the word "faggot", he makes some damn good points, especially near the end.



(You'll have to ignore the specific names mentioned too).
That's all for now 'folks. Cool
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« Reply #45 on: June 17, 2009, 07:09:22 PM »



Play nice kids. Stick to the topic : Best metal bands. It isn't called arguing about metal.

Mod, Shut your mouth. You're ruining a perfectly good music argument.
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« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2009, 07:45:09 PM »

Mod, Shut your mouth. You're ruining a perfectly good music argument.

.
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« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2009, 09:14:49 PM »

Alright then t, i guess out discussion is over  Lips Sealed apparently we are 2 children having an argument that has about the same significance as to who put the cat in the microwave  but thats fine, i had fun humoring you and then you returning the favor.

But i liked to video, and i told u i agreed with some of your points, just not all of them. I read your texts, and didnt ignore anything. If i didnt post about a certain thing you mentioned previously, then i already understand what was said and gotten on with what i didnt particulary agree with. I realize i have flaws in my views, everyone does, and everyone always will. Biased is something that will always be around to bite a 'validated' statement/question/debate/whatever in the ass becasue everyone is subjective is some way/shape/form.

The bands i used were ones that werent considered metal, i did that on purpose. Anyone who listen to anything harder than Disturbed would know without a doubt that Linkin Park and Korn werent even close to being even realitively 'metal-ish.' As for Amon Amarth, i can tell you personally dont like them, but would also like to see you call the poser-fags and what not to their faces, they would probably eat your face off, castrate you, and then feed your amputated testicles to a dog. But thats just what im guessing would happen  Cheesy

Sadly, we must put an end to this discussion and start posting what the topic was actually meant for, which was people posting their preferred metal bands and maybe putting a video in the post here and there. You can say i 'lost', and i would also agree with that, but i just wanted my opinion expressed and have you at least listen/adhere to what i was saying. Your views are yours and i cant change that, and vice-versa goes for you. Although you said you werent trying to sway me lol  Tongue

This is the end of the super long posts in this topic, from now on, everyone should just post their preferred bands and what not.. 'Bash' if you want to, i honestly dont care anymore because i will still listen to the music i like, and so will everyone else. I would prefer 'constructive critisicm' over bashing, but it doesnt matter anymore, as there has been plenty on musical bashing, as well as character bashing in this topic already.

Metal, now and forever, will always be FTW  Smiley
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« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2009, 09:35:17 PM »

^Exactly. We all like metal so I really don't see what the big issue is ._.

Anyhoo, back on topic. I like:









Go forth, and critique. Wink
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« Reply #49 on: June 18, 2009, 07:20:52 AM »

You really can't say one band is the best.  There are way too many factors to consider
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